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Reflecting on 9/11
The 10th Anniversary of 9/11 will soon be upon us. Where were you on 9/11? What were you thoughts then? What are your thoughts and reflections now?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John Collings on -
I saw the news in the coffee bar at a gym after having a swim. At the time I was shocked and saddened but now I am afraid that the horror of 9/11 has been used as an excuse to wage war in many parts of the world. In no way do I condone the killing of the people in the twin towers but neither can I condone the killing of people in Afghanistan or Iraq or anywhere else.
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Permalink Reply by John Bradley on -
Because the news unfolded via the television screen I found it hard to accept that this was reality, not just another Hollywood block buster. It was as if a super-hero was about to rush in and stop the imminent disaster. But they didn't. Instead of 'seeing is believing', this time it was seeing and finding it hard to believe. In the street one of my neighbours commented cynically about the Americans and all they would do about this incident but none of realised how it would shape world news for a decade.
What happened next was full of 'what if's and 'might have been's. If the passengers on the 4th plane had not overcome the hijackers, would it have smashed into the Capitol instead of a field in Pennsylvania? If the voters of Florida had punched their cards properly, would the President have been Al Gore instead of George Bush? Why was Saddam Husein cast as the fount of all evil? Earlier and later it might have been Colonel Gaddafi in that role but ten years ago he was being treated as one of the good guys.
Britain's involvement in the 2nd Gulf War was driven by the corruption of success. Military force appeared to have saved the good guys from the bad guys in Sierra Leone and Kosovo; why not in Iraq too? But there the military forces and government had been hardened by the bitter war with Iran and there was no substantial alternative within Iraq itself.
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Permalink Reply by John Collings on
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I just read some comments on this including "In some research, the cost of Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom includes over 6,000 American Service people lives, estimated 110,000 to 150,000 civilian lives, over 33,000 American wounded, and $1.5 trillion. In the parable of Matthew 18: 21-35 Jesus teaches the Kingdom principle of radical forgiveness." (Quoting from http://www.patheos.com/community/jesuscreed/2011/09/10/will-willimo...)
I do feel that so many have died since 911 and I know many more will die and what for? Can we ever win a war against (I'm unsure what to put next, what are we fighting for and who are we fighting?) We are fighting for who knows what. Would we, and I mean the UK, be in Afghanistan if there was not an oil pipeline route involved? Is anything worth the death of young men and women?
I have to say that fighting evil is worth while but is this really a war against evil, (WW2 was partly against the horrors of the extermination camps. The concentration camps were based one those Britain used during to Boar war. No nation is free from criticism regarding the wars it has fought but we need to stand up and decide what is really worth while
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Permalink Reply by Stefan Gillies on -
John Collins, in respsonse to your post I thought you may find this of interest regarding the war against evil...
By Father Paul Kramer, M.Div., S.T.L. (Cand.)(taken from Fatima Crusader)
We Must Regain Our Sight
Only a few months ago I spoke with an Archbishop in the Vatican who thought there was no serious reason for concern about the possibility of another world war. According to his mind there is some legitimate concern about terrorism, and he even mentioned al-Queda, but he saw no major geopolitical developments threatening world peace. I replied by saying it is interesting that he mentioned al-Queda, because that organization was created by the CIA with the help of other [nation] state intelligence agencies. The Archbishop was absolutely incredulous – it was as though I had said that Vladimir Putin was a space alien whose armed forces are poised to attack the earth from the dark side of the moon….
…If we are to regain our sight we must not allow government and media to do our thinking for us, but must employ our own intellectual powers to analyze the facts and realities that are plainly in our view. If we can refrain from conditioned reflex judgments, examine the evidence and subject everything to critical analysis it will not take long before we grasp the absurdity of the conclusions we are constantly being induced to accept and come to the understanding that there is indeed a global war being waged, but it is not a ‘War Against Terror’ being waged against shadowy terrorist groups supported by militant Islamic or Communist regimes, but against us –against all of us – in order to set up a global government – a perverse and genocidal anti-Christian, anti-Jewish, anti-Muslim, anti-God police state.Trackbacks & Pingbacks
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Permalink Reply by John Bradley on
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I'm not sure about this. I'm not saying that this writer is paranoid, and I know that even the paranoid have enemies, but I do think that some who suffer from paranoia would take this to confirm that 'they' are out to get 'us' (whoever they and us are).
I still believe that the best tool we have is democracy. It's not perfect and there are plenty of examples in history where the majority have been wrong but it is the best protection we have against those who would corrupt politics for their own ends.
It's easy to blame the Americans for it all. Saddam Hussein was a monster but he only got where he did because the US government hated the Iranian government as much as he did. There is no evidence that he was of any significance in the planning of 9-11. The question which was drowned out by a flood of vengeance was 'why do these intelligent people hate us so much that they will commit suicide and mass murder to hurt us?' The significance of the choice of the World Trade Center as the prime target was that the bombers hated the global economy, the coca-colonisation of the world so that local products are swept from the shelves by those of American-led multinationals.
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Permalink Reply by Stefan Gillies on
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I agree democracy is the best protection we have against those who would corrupt politics for their own ends as we see today under our global capitalist economic systems that you talk of being the 'coca-colonisation' of the world . Dēmokratía "rule of the people" denoting the beginning of the Roman Republican period is now not representative of the people it claims to be and the evidence for this we can see post 1970's in the painfull lack of relevant referendums handed over to the people on key strategic issues.I am a CAFOD MP correspondent and find it extremely difficult to get my own MP to even talk to me about policies concerning international development issues.
If I may quote the Catechism of the Catholic Church at this point (as I have in a previous post)..."# 2425 The Church has rejected the totalitarian and atheistic ideologies associated in modem times with "communism" or "socialism." She has likewise refused to accept, in the practice of "capitalism," individualism and the absolute primacy of the law of the marketplace over human labor"
So when Fr Kramer says "If we are to regain our sight we must not allow government and media to do our thinking for us, but must employ our own intellectual powers to analyze the facts and realities that are plainly in our view." I beleive he is stating a critical mental desicion Christians must make in our times because the originator of lies is the 'they' you speak of and is very real indeed.What's more his main battlefeild strategy is invisibility and deception which seems to be serving him very well indeed.
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Permalink Reply by John Bradley on
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I get worried by the tabloid press. They seem to be a labour-saving device: if you're too tired to work out what you really think about the big issues, never mind; just buy a newspaper that will do the thinking for you. I don't mind people reading comics, though I prefer Private Eye or the Beano, but I don't like people thinking they are real newspapers which publish facts.
I was pleased to see the end of the News of the World (or 'Gossip of the Gutter' as I called it) but I don't think the others are much better. The Daily [junk] Mail claims to be a quality tabloid but I'm worried that even touching it could make someone contract euroscepticaemia! Apart from that, my wife is a school teacher so for me to buy a Daily Mail would constitute grounds for divorce. Then there's the Daily Express [check-out, five items of news or less] and the Sun-bather. I'll have to stick with the occasional IndeGuardianellegraph...
Stefan Gillies said:I agree democracy is the best protection we have against those who would corrupt politics for their own ends as we see today under our global capitalist economic systems that you talk of being the 'coca-colonisation' of the world . Dēmokratía "rule of the people" denoting the beginning of the Roman Republican period is now not representative of the people it claims to be and the evidence for this we can see post 1970's in the painfull lack of relevant referendums handed over to the people on key strategic issues.I am a CAFOD MP correspondent and find it extremely difficult to get my own MP to even talk to me about policies concerning international development issues.
If I may quote the Catechism of the Catholic Church at this point (as I have in a previous post)..."# 2425 The Church has rejected the totalitarian and atheistic ideologies associated in modem times with "communism" or "socialism." She has likewise refused to accept, in the practice of "capitalism," individualism and the absolute primacy of the law of the marketplace over human labor"
So when Fr Kramer says "If we are to regain our sight we must not allow government and media to do our thinking for us, but must employ our own intellectual powers to analyze the facts and realities that are plainly in our view." I beleive he is stating a critical mental desicion Christians must make in our times because the originator of lies is the 'they' you speak of and is very real indeed.What's more his main battlefeild strategy is invisibility and deception which seems to be serving him very well indeed.
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Permalink Reply by Stefan Gillies on
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Digressing from the original topic but relevent to Guardian readership, my good freind sent me this article recently to assess my thoughts on it.Maybe you caught it in the paper version?
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Permalink Reply by John Bradley on
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That's very interesting. I can't imagine a tabloid publishing it!
I disagree with his final point. I don't see how we can help wondering whether or not there is a purpose to the existence of the universe. The ultimate question is why there is something rather than nothing and that is not a scientific question. Nor do I believe that the answer to Life, the Universe and Everything is 42! But I do have a suggestion for the ultimate question to which 42 is the answer:
How many roads must a man go down
Before admitting he's lost?
The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind,
The answer is forty-two.
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